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Path: bloom-beacon.mit.edu!hookup!news.kei.com!news.byu.edu!news.mtholyoke.edu!uhog.mit.edu!nntp.club.cc.cmu.edu!news.sei.cmu.edu!bb3.andrew.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!jbbb+ From: Joshua John Buergel <jbbb+@andrew.cmu.edu> Newsgroups: rec.music.info,alt.answers,rec.answers,news.answers,alt.music.alternative Subject: FAQ: alt.music.alternative Frequently Asked Questions part one of two Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 22:24:07 -0400 Organization: Junior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Lines: 488 Approved: trusted-submitters@cp.tn.tudelft.nl,news-answers-request@MIT.Edu Message-ID: <ghdA17200iV38Agmdu@andrew.cmu.edu> Reply-To: jbbb+faq@andrew.cmu.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: po6.andrew.cmu.edu Summary: This posting is the first part a document that contains some frequently asked questions and answers relvant to alt.music.alternative. It also contains some posting guidlines and should be read by anyone who wishes to post to alt.music.alternative. Xref: bloom-beacon.mit.edu rec.music.info:3057 alt.answers:2359 rec.answers:4803 news.answers:17806 alt.music.alternative:73530 Archive-name: music/alternative-faq/part1 Last-modified: 1994/04/07 Well, I'm back. I've been on a Usenet music hiatus for a while now. Basically, I haven't read this newsgroup (or resubbed to any mailing lists) since Christmas break. That's not to say I haven't been buying music. I just haven't been reading anything on the net about music. At any rate, here is the FAQ I wrote a long time ago. I've updated one or two things, nuked one or two things, and added one or two things. This fails to interest me much any more, but if you have comments, send 'em to jbbb+faq@andrew.cmu.edu and I'll get around to them. Eventually. "There are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -The Mr. T Experience, "Master of the Situation" Presenting the ALT.MUSIC.ALTERNATIVE Frequently Asked Questions list! Message One: I. Introduction to alt.music.alternative or "Just what the heck IS all of this?" II. Frequently asked questions or "I just discovered these two tracks on my Nine Inch Nails CD..." Message Two: III. Basic Usenet ettiquette or "You too can waste hundreds, if not thousands of dollars!" IV. Mailing lists or "Does anyone have the address of my clue?" V. FTP or "Dave Datta is your pal!" --==|| Part I ||==-- INTRODUCTION Sometime in early 1992, some enterprising soul decided that there was a void in Usenet. After braving the firestorm on rec.music.misc, that brave soul decided to create a brand new group: alt.music.alternative. This new newsgroup was to be dedicated to discussion of "alternative" music. The folks who read rec.music.misc correctly predicted flamewars about the definition of alternative. Every now and again, somebody forgets to log out of their terminal or is overwhelmed with their own cleverness and decides to post some sort of message declaring "That's not alternative!" Of course people invariably take this bait and a flamewar ensues. That's not what this newsgroup is for...it would be called alt.music.flame if it were for that. So what is this group for? What IS alternative music? That's a pretty good question, and it probably is the most frequently asked question in this newsgroup. Unfortunately, neither I nor anyone else can really answer this question. In a broad sense, alternative is music that is an alternative to standard mainstream music. Instead of discussing Madonna we would be ideally discussing Masonna. This defination is very loose, however, since it excludes the many acts that once had a very limited following and now have become very popular. The best example of this phenomenon in my mind is R.E.M. Are they alternative? Many would say, "No! What are you, some sort of booger-head?" Others might say, "Of course! Just because they are popular doesn't mean they've necessarily changed at all!" Still yet others might say, "Who cares? Pass the salt." My take on the matter is that such bands as R.E.M., Nirvana and other groups who have become extraordinarily popular these days should still be discussed. Any flamewars trying to get people to stop posting about these bands would invariably waste a hundred times more bandwidth than the original discussion would have taken. Live and let live. Just discuss the music, and this will become a better newsgroup. Mark Cornick, former co-moderater of the indie list (see section IV) has the following to say: "Louis Armstrong was once asked 'what is jazz?' He replied 'If you have to ask the question, you will never know the answer.' Alternative is in your own mind. So if you think it's alternative, it probably is, and if it isn't people will happily flame you. C'mon folks, you know what's alternative and what's not, and if you don't, turn on your local college radio station or (gasp) 120 Minutes and maybe you'll find out." I can agree with this. The upshot of this section is that this newsgroup is for discussion of alternative MUSIC. This means that everything from "punk" to "grunge" to "industrial" to "techno" to "noise" to "post punk" to "whatever it is they are calling alternative these days" is a valid topic for discussion. It is not for a discussion of how cool you think you are. It is not for a discussion about how obnoxious the VJ of "Alternative Nation" is. It is not for a discussion of WHAT alternative music is. Just discuss the music you enjoy, and you might find others out there with similar tastes. I know I have. --==|| Part II ||==-- Frequently Asked Questions Q: I bought Nine Inch Nails' CD _Broken_ the other day, and I discovered that there are two bonus tracks at the end of the CD? Holy cow! Any idea what these are called? A: Well, you're not the first to discover this. There are indeed two bonus tracks on _Broken_. The first is a cover of an Adam and the Ants song entitled "Physical (You're So)" and the second is a cover of a Pigface song, "Suck". The latter was actually co-written by Trent Reznor and he helped perform it with Pigface on _Gub_, but it is still originally a Pigface song. The version included on _Broken_ is actually significantly different than the one on _Gub_. Q: Hey, man, I can't find NIN's _Fixed_ ANYWHERE! What the heck? A: It's limited edition. After an original run, Interscope discontinued the single. Some reports seem to indicate that Interscope stopped printing _Fixed_ so that it would not cut into sales of _Broken_. These same reports state that _Fixed_ will be reissued after sales of _Broken_ cool off. At any rate, there are still a few copies of _Fixed_ floating around. In addition, the single is still in print oversees and is available as an import. All is not lost. Q: What are the official NIN releases, as long as I'm bugging you? And what is this "Halo" business? A: The "Halo" designation goes on every official NIN release. Halo 1 is the "Down In It" 12" (later reissued on CD), Halo 2 is _Pretty Hate Machine_, Halo 3 is the "Head Like A Hole" single, Halo 4 is the "Sin" single, Halo 5 is _Broken_ and Halo 6 is _Fixed_. There is a bootleg CD containing "Supernaut" and "Suck" that is marked "Halo 00", but this is NOT an official release. The Halo designation was added in a totally spurious attempt to make it look official. Since the above paragraph has been written, two new "Halo" releases have surfaced. A single for "March of the Pigs" is Halo 7 and the album _The Downward Spiral_ is Halo 8. I'll probably stop updating this little discography thing at this point, but if you want a complete discography, one is likely available at the musical archives at cs.uwp.edu (see part V). Q: Woah. After a bunch of silence there is another track on Nirvana's _Nevermind_! What is up with this? A: It's called "Endless Nameless" and was included on all CDs of _Nevermind_ after the very first run. If you have one of these first 50,000 CDs, you can still get the track by purchasing the single for "Come As You Are" which was released in England. As for other countries, I'm not certain if the track was included or not. Q: Is Eddie Vedder dead? A: Nope. For that matter, Anthony Keidis does not have AIDS nor does Flea. Dick Vaughn, however, is dead. Q: Man, you're not alternative. I've got one of only three copies of Flaccid Penile Implant's 7" "Fartstorm" b/w "Burning Rectal Hell" and the other two were eaten by my neighbor's Rottweiler. A: Are you always this obnoxious, or just when I put words in your mouth? Anyway, check your attitude at the door, friend. Alt.music.alternative is not the sort of place for these sorts of infantile comments. Besides, there were four of those made...I ought to know, I made them. Q: Is Eddie Vedder dead yet? A: Nope, not yet. Q: You sure? A: Quite. Q: So, what's the deal with the new Pearl Jam album? What is it called? A: Pearl Jam decided, at the last minute, to change the name of the album from _Five Against One_ to _Vs._. They decided after the album had started to go through the first pressing, so instead of trashing the entire first run they decided to go ahead and release them. The album was also issued in two forms, a digi-pak and a normal jewel box. I'm afraid I don't know how rare any of these editions are, but I'm certain one could say "not rare at all" and be correct. Q: I just heard that the Pixies have broken up! Is that true? A: Yes, it is true. Black Francis is now going under the name Frank Black and has a solo album out on 4AD (Electra here in the US) entitled _Frank Black_. Kim Deal is devoting her time to the Breeders, and they have since released _Last Splash_ which is making quite the splash in alt.music.alternative. Dave Lovering somehow landed in Nitzer Ebb, go figure. In addition, he is currently touring with Cracker, meaning that he might not be with Nitzer Ebb after all and might have (much more sensibly) decided to play with Cracker for a while. Anybody with more information on Lovering is encouraged to mail me. Finally, Joey Santiago contributed some guitar on Frank Black's album. What he is doing besides that is unknown to me, although reports seem to indicate he will be playing with Mr. Black for a while. Incidentally, since the demise of Rough Trade, _Come On Pilgrim_ and _Surfer Rosa_ are now out on separate CDs, so if you find the combination CD used, snap it up so record company weasels don't make any money off of this bum deal. Q: Hey, anybody have the lyrics to "Spewmatic" by Spam Enema? A: If anybody on the net has the lyrics has the lyrics to any song, odds are they've shown up on the FTP site at cs.uwp.edu. In addition to tons and tons of lyrics, there are discographies and other assorted information on this site. Read part V for more information. Besides, what are you talking about? "Spewmatic" is an instrumental. Q: Where did Pearl Jam get their name? There are currently three versions of this story to my knowledge. 1) The members of Pearl Jam are avid basketball fans, and early on the band was named "Mookie Blaylock." After Mookie and The NJ Nets threatened to sue the band it was changed to Mookie's nicknamed slamdunk, a "Pearl Jam". "10", the title of Pearl Jam's first album, is Mookie's jersey number. 2) A Rolling Stone (Oct. 91?) article states that "Pearl Jam" was named after a jelly that Eddy Vedder's grandma (Pearl) used to make for her husband. According to the article, the jam contained hallucinagens. 3) The most persistant rumor I've heard that also happens to be the one with the least documented evidence is that Pearl Jam is slang for semen. Q: What is the Negativland _U2_ record? A: The Negativland _U2_ single put out in late '91 by SST Records and featured two tracks, both of which made fun of U2's "Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For". Shortly after its release, an enormous legal document arrived at SST from Island Records/ Warner-Chappel Publishing, the gist of which was that SST was getting its butt sued for putting the thing out. Among the charges being levelled were that the packaging was deceptive (this was reportedly the biggest problem that Island had with the record), that the use of various unauthorized samples on the single were copyright infringement (Negativland maintained that as a piece of satire the samples should have been allowed) and lots of other charges. Incidentally, the "deceptive" packaging as that the single had "U2" in huge letters on the front with "Negativland" in really small letters across the bottom. Island apparently felt that such packaging was intended to deceive the consumer into believing it was a U2 release. Anyway, SST and Negativland got squashed. The settled out of court. Total damages: $90,000. SST tried to get Negativland to pay the entire bill while N'land offered to pay half. No agreement was reached and N'land left SST records, whose owner (Greg Ginn, ex-Black Flag guitarist) threatened lawsuits. Shortly thereafter Negativland put out a CD and magazine combo entitled "The Letter U and the Numeral 2" which documents the whole fiasco, including press releases, legal documents, articles and everything else possibly concerned with the whole situation. Greg Ginn then threatened to sue N'land for, among other thing, copyright infringement (the press releases were copyrighted, he claims). He also was suing over the fact that the magazine contained such revelations as the fact that SST has gross sales in excess of $5 million. As a result, "The Letter U and the Numeral 2" isn't available right now either (sort of ironic, if you think about it). That's the current situation, I guess. The music? Oh yeah, the music. Brilliant. "Still Haven't Found..." is thoroughly raked over the coals, with the Weatherman demolishing the lyrics ("Yup, you're the fat one, and I want to be with you."), the band playing the tune in amazingly goofy ways (or just humming it) and some really choice Casey Kasem samples (ever wonder what it would sound like if Casey Kasem said "Oh fuck!"? Well...) Find somebody who has a copy and dub it. Don't pay $100 (or more) for it though, as that is collector skumism at its best. I was lucky enough to buy a copy when it first came out (as a matter of fact, it was the first N'land thing I bought..."Hmm, I've heard about this band. Maybe I'll buy this single, since it is the only thing of theirs here in the store.") and would never consider selling it. Q: What's the Mother Love Bone/Pearl Jam connection? Once upon a time, there was a pioneering Seattle grunge band called Green River. Steve Turner left the band early on, and was later joined by Mark Arm to form Mudhoney. The rest put together Mother Love Bone, with Andrew Wood handling vocals, and "headed off on their way to Def Lepperdom" as Barry Hennesler so aptly put it. They band dissolved after Andy's death from a heroin overdose. The remaining members joined Chris Cornell and Matt Cameron from Soundgarden in a tribute band called "Project: Temple of the Dog," and these same Love Bone alumni have since created the aforementioned Pearl Jam. Q: I bought Lilies, "In the Presence of Nothing" and noticed that the cd cover listed one less song than is listed on my cd player track number count. (I believe the track # count is correct) Can anyone explain the discrepancy to me? A: Tracks 1-8 are as listed in order. Track 9 is called "Threw A Day" and is from their 45. Track 10 is "Claire Hates Me." Q: What exactly is This Mortal Coil? A: This Mortal Coil was (note the was) the project of the founder of 4AD Records, Ivo Watts-Russel. They produced three albums (_It'll End In Tears_, _Filigree and Shadow_ and _Blood) along with a 12" ("Sixteen Days"/"Gathering Dust") and a compilation track on _Lonely Is an Eyesore_. The project had, along with Watts-Russel, members of other 4AD bands (such as the Cocteau Twins, Dead Can Dance, The Wolfgang Press, Colourbox, The Breeders, Modern English and others) as well as non 4AD artists (Caroline Crawly, Cindytalk, Breathless, Alison Limerick and others). After _Blood_, Watts-Russel said that the project had gone on long enough. The three albums had been available only as imports in the US up until February of 1993, when they were released in a box set 1991_. This set also included a fourth CD which contained most of the originals that the band covered over the course of the three albums. Q: So, what exactly is "grunge"? A: Like any other word which attempts to describe an entire style of music, the word "grunge" is mostly useless. People use it in an attempt to describe the recent flood of guitar driven acts who take riffs from Black Sabbath and attitudes from punk. People also mistakenly use it to categorize all music out of Seattle, which is unfair to alot of very good Seattle acts (and just try calling Diamond Fist Werny "grunge"). There are many other terms such as "punk", "hardcore", "shoegazer", "gothic", "industrial", "indie rock" and others which people use in an attempt to say what it is they listen to (i.e. "I listen to mostly gothic and industrial. How about you?"). While these terms have a limited usefulness in broad categorization (it's pretty safe to say that a song categorized as "gothic" is not going to start with the drummer yelling "one-two-three-four!"), try not to rely on them in describing bands. Saying a band relies on a pounding drum machine, various samples from horror movies, sampled guitar and heavily distorted vocals is much more descriptive than "industrial". Above all, don't fret the definitions too much. Every person is going to have different definitions of them, so don't let somebody calling a given band "grunge" or "punk" or whatever turn you off of them (or onto them). Q: BLIND MELON SUCKS! A: Whatever. One of my pet peeves (and, evidently, one of Chris $L's, who inspired this question) is people who post "reviews", such as the above comment, which are completely devoid of anything resembling real information. Perhaps you do believe, in your heart of hearts, that Band X sucks canal water or Band Y is a sell out. Declaring that in front of thousands of people will only convince said thousands that you are an idiot. There isn't anything wrong with disliking and album or band, just try to state your opinions intelligently. Do a trash review, but explain yourself. Saying "Band X resorts to overplayed cliches in the boring, overlong songs which proliferate on _Liquid Drano_, causing them to have all the distinction in my mind of tile grout" is much more useful than "Band X sucks!". Q: Where can I get the _Valley Girl_ soundtrack? A: This information comes from Goldmine, which is usually fairly accurate (although their discographies are sometimes sort of spotty): Epic Records stated that the album was slated for release in the US, but an actual release never happened due to contractual difficulties. They deny that any copies were ever pressed or issued in any way. Thus, a full soundtrack to the album never saw the light of day. Despite this, some copies of subsets of the soundtrack were issued. A 10-song album came out in the UK on Avatar Records, while a 6-song mini-album later came out on Roadshow Records. Neither of these releases contains anything remotely approaching rare, nor was anything particularly rare used in the movie. Also provided with the article is a list of all the songs used in the movie along with sources. It shouldn't be too difficult to comb used bins (and friends' collections) to assemble your own Valley Girl soundtrack: Bananarama & Fun Boy Three: 'He Was Really Saying Something' Deep Sea Skiving (Chrysalis) The Clash: 'Rock the Casbah' Combat Rock (Epic) Josie Cotton: 'He Could Be the One' and 'Johnny are you Queer?' Convertible Music (Elektra) Josie Cotton: 'School is In' From the Hip (Elektra) Culture Club: 'Do You Really Want to Hurt Me?' Kissing to Be Clever (Virgin/Epic) Felony: 'The Fanatic' The Fanatic (Rock&Roll/Scotti Brothers) The Flirts: '(Don't Put Another Dime)' 10 Cents a Dance (O Records) Eddy Grant: 'Electric Avenue' Killer on the Rampage (Portrait) Bonnie Hayes and the Wild Combo: 'Girls Like Me' and 'Shelly's Boyfriend' Good Clean Fun (Slash) The Jam: 'Town Called Malice' The Gift (Polydor) Men at Work: 'Who Can it Be Now?' Business as Usual (Columbia) Modern English: 'I Melt With You' After the Snow (Sire) Gary Myrick: 'Time to Win' Language (Epic) Gary Myrick and the Figures: 'She Talks in Stereo' Gary Myrick and the Figures (Epic) Payolas: 'Eyes of a Stranger' No Stranger to Danger (A&M) The Plimsouls: 'A Million Miles Away', 'Oldest Story in the World', 'Everywhere at Once' Everywhere at Once (Geffen) Psychadelic Furs: 'Love My Way' Forever Now (Columbia) Sparks: 'Angst in my Pants' and 'Eaten by the Monster of Love' Angst in my Pants (Atlantic) Pat Travers: 'I La La La Love You' Black Pearl (Polygram) Most of the above tracks are still quite easily available on CD, so look around and make your own soundtrack before shelling out tons of money for one of the rare released ones. Q: Can anybody explain the personnel changes of the Throwing Muses to me? A: I can't, but K. Lena Bennett (who, along with the various members of the Indie List Junta, past and present, have been the few helpful and supportive people out there with respect to this here FAQ file, and who collectively earn my thanks...especially K. Lena Bennett, Sean Murphy and Mark Cornick) can. She says (quoting somebody else): ": Anyway, Kristin Hersh (sorry if I'm spelling it wrong) and David Narcizo : (drummer) have been in the band since its inception and still continue. : Leslie Langston (bassist) left after Hunkpapa. Tanya Donnelly left after : The Real Ramona. Fred Abong was the bassist on The Real Ramona, but he : left and was replaced by Bernard Georges (altho Leslie Langston played : bass on Red Heaven, altho was not considered part of the group - the : photo features only Hersh and Narcizo). Kristin Hersh is releasing a : solo album but continues to play with Throwing Muses (which I'm assuming : now consists of Hersh, Narcizo, and Georges). Sorry to quote back everything, but everything you said was correct (down to the spelling of Hersh's name!) There was another bassist (Elaine Adamedes) who is only on their '84 demo and an '85 7" ep. (not their 2nd demo)" Q: Hey, anybody who watches MTV is obviously a total bozo. Plus, Beavis and Butthead are truly moronic and anybody who enjoys them is doubly so. A: This isn't a question, but is instead a frequently seen comment on alt.music.alternative. "Is MTV, in any way, alternative?" is the question that such comments seem to be really asking. There isn't a good answer for this. For some areas that lack an active music scene or a good college radio station, programs such as 120 Minutes and Alternative Nation represent one of the few outlets for hearing new music. For people living in such areas, this music may very well be alternative. For others lucky enough to be blessed with active scenes or good radio stations, MTV may be completely commercial pap. It depends mainly on one's perspective and tastes. As such, discussions on the worth of MTV are invariably going to be inconclusive. Don't bother. I will, however, state that if you have access to Usenet in the first place, you've got a fairly good musical resource at hand and you should be able to avoid relying entirely on MTV for your musical information. Try subscribing to some mailing lists, and ask around for the addresses of some good 'zines. You'd be surprised how much one can find out about music in a very short period of time. Beavis and Butthead have recently, and inexplicably, become quite a popular topic of "conversation" on alt.music.alternative. Like 'em or not, don't bother discussing them on a.m.a. You're not going to change anyone's opinion on them and you're just going to incite a pointless flamewar. Besides, last time I checked, they were a cartoon, not a musical group. Q: Where are some good places to find out more about music? A: Well, Usenet is not an ideal place for real information, but occasionally some real information leaks through. There are quite a number of Usenet groups dedicated to music. The easiest way to find out abouo. Besides stuff like discographies, concert listings and whatnot, listings of musical resources available on Usenet and by FTP get posted to rec.music.info. It's very low volume and can be helpful at times. Besides Usenet, you can try mailing lists. See part IV for more information on that. Aside from computer resources, you can try print media. There are magazines like Alternative Press, Option and others that attempt to cover mainly alternative music. In addition to these mass media sources, there are "'zines" which are put out by regular people just like you and me. Although they are often spotty they also tend to be alot more honest than their mass media counterparts which have to appease their advertisers. The main thing is to keep your eyes (and your ears) open. Q: Thanks, you've been helpful. Anything you want to add? A: That's mighty gracious of you, even though it was really me who typed that. Well, gosh, I guess there isn't too much to say. If you have anything you would like to see in this section, go ahead and email me at jbbb+faq@andrew.cmu.edu. Joshua Buergel - allroy@cmu.edu - jbbb@andrew.cmu.edu "In a report in a recent issue of Audubon magazine, Ursula Garza de Garza of the border town of Matamoros, Mexico mentioned that her dogs no longer have a flea problem. 'We grab the dogs and stick them in the canal [that connects several Matamoros chemical companies], and the fleas are gone. All the hair falls off, too, but it gradually comes back.'" - News of the Wierd, March 11, 1994 
